Man menar att de är dåligt med orgasm. Man hävdar att det finns något som heter orgasm-hangover pga av dopaminet bl.a blir extremt lågt efter ett par dagar ect. Jag har upplevt det men vet inte vad som faktiskt har orsaktat det. Jag känner att jag börjar tappa verklighetsuppfattingen kring vad som är fakta. Frågan man en vanlig läkare så menar man att orgasm bara är bra. Jag känner inte riktigt att jag har självförtroendet att bara avfärda dessa påståenden. Mina sexglada um-vänner vad tror ni?
Återkommer kanske imorgon.
(nej det var inte menat som skoj).
trams
Med min skeva filosofi att allt som är en quickfix är dåligt i längden så är jag öppen för den här teorin..
reben:
trams
Ja, vad som gör det sjukt skumt är att alla texter online, på alla möjliga sidor refererar till samma person Marnia Robinson. Som iof påstår sig ha forskning bankom sig. Men det kan ju lika gärna vara tolkningar av forskning i stil av det Aftonbladet gör. Svårt att avgöra när man inte är insatt känns det som.
Lita aldrig på Internet om du inte kan få se en full labraport/komma åt en. Att ha en orgasm är nyttigt och det finns inga negativa effekter. Det stämmer att man kan bli lite trött, hängig och okåt efteråd, och det är förväntat, men det håller inte I sig länge, dock är alla olika och du kanske har en känslig kemisk balans? Om du upplever detta som ett problem så bör du kontakta en läkarmotagning för eventuella kontroller. Glhf
Asha:
Ja, vad som gör det sjukt skumt är att alla texter online, på alla möjliga sidor refererar till samma person Marnia Robinson. Som iof påstår sig ha forskning bankom sig. Men det kan ju lika gärna vara tolkningar av forskning i stil av det Aftonbladet gör. Svårt att avgöra när man inte är insatt känns det som.
tkr du inte att det blir lite tveksamt redan när du ser att det bara finns en källa?
även om det är hennes egen forskning behöver det ju inte betyda att det är någon bra forskning som är tillförlitlig heller?
Ja, hon är helt öppen med att i grunden så har hon fått detta påstående från Tantra traditioner. Men menar att hon hittat forskning som stödjer stora delar av den praktiken. Nu finns det ju många olika typer av Tantra. New Tantra exempelvis (som är populär i en del av mina kompiskretsar) är ju kritisk till en del saker. Men menar med referens till Marnia Robinson primärt att det här skulle vara fakta. Påståendena sammanfattas ganska bra här.
Det är ju inte direkt lätt att sluta ha orgasm för 21 dagar för mig. Så därför blir det ju svårt att själv testa om påståendena stämmer fullt ut. Och det är svårt att kalla det för vetenskaplig fakta när det inte vad jag vet finns en sådan konsensus kring alla påståendena.
lok501 :
Lita aldrig på Internet om du inte kan få se en full labraport/komma åt en. Att ha en orgasm är nyttigt och det finns inga negativa effekter. Det stämmer att man kan bli lite trött, hängig och okåt efteråd, och det är förväntat, men det håller inte I sig länge, dock är alla olika och du kanske har en känslig kemisk balans? Om du upplever detta som ett problem så bör du kontakta en läkarmotagning för eventuella kontroller. Glhf
Alla påståenden måste ju kritiskt granskas. Att vara selektivt skeptisk leder ingen stans. Håller inte i sig länge? Nyttigt? Inga negativa effekter? Det känns ju något naivt. Det är det här jag menar, för mig så är det här inte självklarheter. Standard iden är alltid att tänka sig undantag till en modell som en partikulär brist, och inte en brist på modellen som sådan. Att säga att alla är olika är att erkänna att vi vet lite vilket är okej. Det rimliga utgångspunkten är nog att utgå från antagandet att vi vet väldigt lite om många processer i kroppen.
Hittade detta om ämnet så väljer att posta det här.
From my psychology professor who specialises in psychology of sexuality and remains to be anonymous.
The No Fap Hoax
TL;DR
YBOP, TGPE, and nofap are founded on the views of two people who are considered pariahs within the sex and relationship research and clinical communities. They present themselves as experts but aren’t. There’s no empirical research evidence to support any of the claims made by YBOP and TGPE. All the claims about negative effects of internet porn use can be better accounted for by other explanations. Watching internet porn (hopefully ethically produced!) and masturbating are not problematic for the vast majority of people. And for those people who do have a problem with internet porn, it’s almost always a sign of some other underlying problem (shame, anxiety, fear of rejection, relationship problems, boredom, low self-esteem, lack of good sex education, etc.). Addressing those underlying problems should be people’s focus, not abstaining from masturbation to internet porn.
LONG VERSION
Before I get into the problems with YBOP, TGPE, and nofap, a bit about my background to show that I have some expertise in the area. I have PhD in psychology and have studied human sexuality extensively. I’ve published several first-authour papers in reputable peer-reviewed academic journals such as the Archives of Sexual Behaviour and the Journal of Sex Research. I teach a class on human sexuality at one of Canada’s top-ranked universities. I’m also part of a global email listserve that’s populated by many of the best minds (i.e., researchers, theorists and clinicians) in the field of human sexuality. YBOP, TGPE, and nofap have all been discussed extensively on the listserve (well, mostly criticized and ridiculed, largely because Marnia Robinson takes every opportunity she can to spam the list with her claims). So I’m not just another internet hero who thinks he’s boss when he’s clearly not.
On to YBOP, TGPE, and nofap…
This whole movement stems entirely from the work of two people: Marnia Robinson and her partner Gary Wilson (R&W). They are on a crusade against internet pornography. Wilson is a high school science teacher and adjunct instructor at Southern Oregon University, and Robinson is an ex-lawyer who is now a sex and relationship therapist. Neither one of them have been formally educated in research or clinical psychology, and neither one of them have a PhD (i.e., they’re not Drs.). YourBrainOnPorn.com is a pet project of theirs, tied into talks, books, articles, and Ms. Robinson’s therapy practice (Reuniting.info). They run YourBrainOnPorn.com. Wilson is the presenter of the TEDx talk, “The Great Porn Experiment”. R&W regularly blog their work online at “Psychology Today,” which is a non-academic magazine, although I’ve heard rumblings that their gigue may be up. Robinson is also the co-authour of “Cupid’s Poison Arrow,” a non-academic book about her views on sex and relationships. Their website, the TEDx talk and their publications give them a veneer of scientific expertise.
If you do some digging, you’ll find that the links (not people’s personal blogs) in the reddit/r/nofap FAQs are all from the same source: the work of R&W. There’s a reason why there are no other sources – no experts have bought into their theories and viewpoints. R&W have a history of manipulating and/or misrepresenting research findings to support their ideology and claims, ignoring studies (and parts of studies) they’ve cited that contradict them, discussing indirect evidence as if it’s direct supporting evidence, and citing bad research.
R&W are pariahs within the world of sex research and clinical practice. I’m not being an intellectual snob (or at least, I hope I’m not); it’s just that what they’re claiming is completely unsupported by research. This is not to say that they’re trying to deceive people. They clearly believe the ideas they’re promoting, and that they’re making the world a better place. And who knows, perhaps future research will prove them to be correct (I doubt it).
R&W make a litany of claims about the harms of internet porn use. I’ll address a few of the most egregious ones in an effort to keep this short enough that people will hopefully read it. Keep in mind, though, that NONE of R&W’s theories and claims are supported by any peer-reviewed research. It’s all simply speculation presented as fact. They’ve also made what’s considered the gravest error in the research world – interpreting personal anecdotes as empirical evidence.
DOPAMINE AND BRAIN RE-WIRING
Dopamine plays a central in role in the neural networks of the brain that respond to reward. All rewarding (i.e., pleasurable) experiences are associated with increased dopamine activity and increased activity in the corresponding regions of the brain. These experiences can be anything pleasurable for the individual. Neuroplasticity (or re-wiring, as R&W call it) is a phenomenon that occurs all throughout life, although brain development slows down as people enter into adulthood. All our experiences can potentially cause re-wiring, and our wiring influences the way we experience things (i.e., it’s a two-way street). This is a good thing.
The reward system has been the focus of much substance addiction research and many people have claimed that behavioural addictions have the same underlying neurological causes/effects. Within the larger research community, however, there’s still no consensus on so-called behavioural addictions having long-term effects on brain functioning, similar to what’s seen in substance addictions. Many people are very skeptical of behavioural addictions in general, such as internet addictions, sex addictions, porn addictions, etc., as there simply isn’t any strong evidence to show the same degree of brain changes that are seen in people with substance addictions. There are some addiction organizations in the states that equate behaviour and substance addictions; however, this doesn’t represent the views of the entire mental health/medical community.
The most important point, with reference to R&W, is that there is NO evidence whatsoever that watching internet porn causes detrimental changes in the dopamine-reward system (i.e., their whole re-wiring hypothesis). R&W have simply extrapolated from animal models of substance addiction and sexual behaviour (e.g., hamsters, sheep, rats, etc.) to humans watching internet porn. A great example of this is in the TGPE video. Wilson claims, “At the same time, other physical changes in the brain make it hypereactive to porn…”. There is not one single study that has shown this! It’s simply speculation presented as fact.
INTERNET PORN CAUSES MENTAL DISORDERS
In the TGPE video, Wilson states that internet porn use is associated with various clinical disorders including ADHD, depression, social anxiety and OCD. He opposes the prescription of medications to treat these disorders and states, “Guys don’t realize that they can overcome these symptoms simply by changing their behaviour [masturbation to internet porn].” As someone trained in psychology, I find this extremely problematic and entirely unethical. There are literally piles of peer-reviewed research showing that people with mental disorders and/or other psychological problems will often self-medicate with rewarding behaviour or substances. This is at the core of addiction. In other words, the rewarding behaviour (in this case masturbation to orgasm while watching porn) allows the individual to escape from the symptoms caused by his/her mental disorder or psychological problems. There is NO research showing that internet pornography causes mental disorders – none. It’s the other way around – psychological problems and mental disorders can lead to problematic porn use as a means to cope and self-medicate. Wilson is simply presenting his ideology as fact, and in this case, it’s dangerous. People should be seeking treatment for their mental disorders.
ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION
R&W claim that masturbation to internet pornography can cause erectile dysfunction (ED). While they note that porn-induced ED can happen when watching porn, their main concern is ED with a partner. R&W state that through desensitization, men become unable to achieve and maintain erections when with a partner. This desensitization happens because of re-wiring of the brain in response to internet porn (both the vast quantity and variety). R&W tie this into the Coolidge effect. In animals (and likely humans too, although it’s ethically impossible to do the research), introduction of a novel partner to a sexually satiated animal will lead to renewed sexual interest/behaviour.
There is NO empirical evidence to support the porn-ED theory with the exception of an Italian study that R&W repeatedly cite. What R&W don’t tell you is that the study was poorly constructed, and was only presented at a urology conference. It was never peer-reviewed nor published in a reputable journal. In other words, it’s a weak study. Because it hasn’t been published, it’s impossible to evaluate its quality, but based on what’s been reported, it’s a correlational study that didn’t control for many possible confounds (i.e., alternate explanations for the findings). Also, it says nothing about brain re-wiring and ED.
There are, however, far better explanations for the ED that some porn users experience than desensitization of the brain due to brain re-wiring:
1. The more frequent the orgasms, and the longer the stimulation leading up to orgasm, the weaker the subsequent sexual response before being fully recharged. In other words, if you’re fapping for an hour during the day to porn, and then your partner wants to have sex that evening, of course you’re not going to be as interested or respond as strongly. You already used up your mojo, or at least some of it. Abstaining from masturbation and sex will have the opposite effect.
2. Some men will grip themselves in a specific way, or tightly, when they masturbate. Then, when they’re with a real partner, the sensation is different and/or not as intense. This can lead to ED and/or delayed ejaculation.
3. A man whose sole sex life is with himself will likely feel anxiety when with a real partner. And anxiety if a boner killer.
4. Abstaining from masturbation/sex leads to greater and stronger orgasms and ejaculation in the future. This idea has been around for 100s of years. It ties into point 1, as well. This is different than saying that internet porn causes ED.
5. Men may be experiencing ED with, and lack of interest in, their partners for many other reasons (e.g., boredom, relationship conflict, lack of attraction, performance anxiety, etc.).
ESCALATION
Another one of the claims made by R&W is that internet pornography use causes a change in sexual preferences described by R&W as, “escalation to bizarre porn.” This is an oft-repeated statement by the anti-pornography movement. It’s been repeated so many times over the years that people have started to believe that it’s true. It simply isn’t – there is NO empirical evidence to support this claim. And besides, what’s wrong with “bizarre porn,” as long as everyone in it is consenting and it’s ethically produced? A great example of this would be kink.com, a massive ethical producer of various types of kinky (i.e., “bizarre”) internet pornography.
There is a group of porn users who do exhibit tastes in porn that are more atypical (i.e., “bizarre”). However, these users are the minority, and nobody knows if it’s the internet porn use that’s leading to their choices, or if they’re simply people who are curious, kinky, like any content that’s sexual (including content that is more atypical), and/or are simply trying to find what turns them on the most (i.e., it’s exploratory).
In response to R&W, one of the authours of “A Billion Wicked Thoughts,” a book describing a massive study of internet searches (hundreds of thousands) and people’s sexual preferences, stated that men’s tastes in pornography are very stable (more so than women’s, even). Men tend to search for the same few things over and over again. The study showed that less than 1% of people searching for pornography on the web searched for more than four different content types. The 1% typically searched for eight. So, according to their data, “escalation to bizarre porn” simply does not happen. Keep in mind, though, that the study isn’t published in a peer-reviewed journal. But from all appearances and reviews, it does seem to be sound.
TESTOSTERONE
In the reddit/r/nofap FAQs, it states that one of the benefits of nofap is a serum testosterone boost. This is based on the results of a single study published in a Chinese university’s journal. This is an extremely obscure journal, presumably published to try to garner the university’s researchers some exposure, and therefore credibility. I’d be far more likely to give this study any attention if it was published in a reputable journal.
As for the study, it showed that men who were abstinent exhibited a statistically significant increase in testosterone on day 7. For days 1-6, there was no difference, and then on day 8, testosterone decreased back to baseline (i.e., there was no statistically significant difference in testosterone when days 1 and 8 were compared). Assuming this finding could be replicated and the research was sound, the take away message is that being abstinent leads to a spike in testosterone only on day 7, on average, across men. That’s it. I don’t think this is surprising – if you haven’t had a sexual release for a few days you’re going to get some pent up sexual energy, which is correlated with increased testosterone. Eventually the body will get used to that state, and the pent up feeling will dissipate and testosterone will return to baseline.
So, what does this mean, assuming the science is good? If you’re interested in having a testosterone spike for a single day (I’m not sure why you’d want this – there’s no correlation between acute testosterone levels and any performance improvement), then don’t masturbate or have sex for 7 days. You’ll then need to repeat the pattern if you want to have another spike. I’m sure you’ll be cranky as all hell for that week, though.
WHAT BETTER EXPLAINS THIS SO-CALLED INTERNET PORN PROBLEM?
All the claims put forward by R&W have not been studied, and perhaps future research will validate some of the nutty things they’ve stated. But for the time being, there are several much better possible explanations for what R&W have claimed.
Laziness and Fear of Rejection
Not having an easy sexual outlet (i.e., masturbating to internet porn) means that you’re going to have to work (or work harder) to meet real sexual partners. This may mean being less lazy, being more courageous, getting over being shy, etc. And in doing so, you’ll likely feel better about yourself (you accomplished something that is challenging). So, it’s not that the internet porn is making you avoid partners, it’s that you’re turning to porn because you’re avoiding partners. It’s a positive feedback loop – the cycle reinforces itself (more avoidance, more porn).
Coping with Unpleasant Thoughts, Feelings and Moods
If you use masturbation and porn as a means to cope with (i.e., self-medicate) negative moods (e.g., boredom), feelings (i.e., depression, anxiety) and thoughts (e.g., low self-esteem, fear of rejection), stopping will force you to confront these underlying problems. Alternatively, you might start doing some other rewarding activity as a new way of coping, allowing yourself to keep avoiding that underlying problem. It could be watching lots of TV, playing video games, spending hours surfing the internet, spending piles of money shopping, gambling, exercising non-stop, working a lot, etc. These could all potentially be coping mechanisms that function as escapes from unpleasant moods, feelings and thoughts. Without these coping behaviours, it would mean confronting some demons and unpleasant moods, feeling and thoughts.
A Sense of Regained Control
If you’re someone who feels like you lack control in your life, and lack power and agency, stopping your use of porn and masturbating will give you a new sense of control. This, in turn, will positively affect your perception of yourself. You’ll feel confident, strong, courageous, etc., but this is simply because you’ve overcome a strong natural urge and therefore have increased your sense of agency and accomplishment. But the behaviour you could force yourself to control could be anything – it’s not that there’s something special about porn and masturbation other than the fact that sex drive can be an extremely powerful urge, and that it is a source of shame and guilt.
If you’re looking to have a sense of control, increased agency over your life, and greater self-esteem, choose to take control of a behaviour that’s actually unhealthy – cut out pop (soda, for you Americans), eat less fast food, eat better, get more exercise, force yourself to read books, take a class, go out and meet people, etc. There are lots of challenging changes that you can make that will give you a sense of agency and personal strength. With those change will come increased self-esteem. Why waste your time trying to stop a behaviour that is generally harmless (assuming all the other points have been addressed)?
The Roles of Shame, Guilt and Anxiety
Ask yourself how you feel about masturbating to internet porn? Almost all people will report some guilt, shame, embarrassment and anxiety. This is something that has been ingrained in people – that it’s bad and that you’re a bad person because of it. There’s a reason that a large proportion of the nofappers are religious and virgins. The guilt is strong in them.
If you experience shame, guilt and anxiety about masturbation and porn, then of course you’ll feel better if you stop masturbating and using porn. It doesn’t mean that there’s anything particularly harmful about internet porn (studies show that for most people, porn has no lasting negative effects – one European study showed that it can even have positive effects). A far better solution is to just accept that for almost all people, masturbation is a normal and healthy part of their lives, and therefore not something to cause you shame. Porn use can also be part of a healthy sex life (on your own or with partners), too, although I’d highly recommend that you only use porn that is ethically produced (that’s an entirely different topic of discussion). Neither masturbation or ethically produced and consumed porn are intrinsically unhealthy, as long as they are not getting in the way of day-to-day life and relationships.
Relationship Problems
People often turn to pornography as a sexual outlet when there are problems in their intimate relationships. Problems can include all sorts of things, such as: resentment, anger, hostility, apathy, communication break-down, sexual dissatisfaction, lack of attraction, boredom, etc. Based on the claims of R&W, internet pornography causes lack of intimacy and once its use stops, intimacy will return. This simply isn’t the case. The underlying relationship problems need to be addressed, and once they do, intimacy will return and pornography, as the primary sexual outlet, will take a back seat to the real thing.
The Placebo Effect
The placebo effect is very real. The more someone invests time, resources and energy in change (i.e., treatment), the more that person wants to believe that real change has happened. Going cold turkey, when it comes to masturbation and porn, takes a lot of work and willpower – the urge for sexual release is extremely strong. People therefore want to believe that their work (i.e., being abstinent) has paid off. Another spin off is that when we feel like we’ve worked hard, we also tend to feel good about ourselves.
Crappy Sex Education
People are either not getting sex education, or are getting really bad sex education. Good sex ed should discuss pornography, and pornography use, with kids. Too many kids are learning about sex from pornography, and not in class. Pornography is fantasy – it’s not real. It’s a marketable product, subject to the whims of consumer preferences. So if you’re someone with no sex ed, but you’ve watched lots of porn, when it comes time to have sex with a real person, you’ll be in for a complete shock. Kids should learn about responsible pornography use, and how it doesn’t represent reality both in terms of how the people look and what sex is like. I assume that many of the problems reported by young porn users are directly related to lack of understanding about pornography and how it relates to the real world.
CONCLUSION
YBOP, TGPE, and nofap are fundamentally about fear mongering and sex-negativity. All the claims made are founded on R&W’s own myopic view of what sex should be (read Robinson’s website Reuniting.info if you want a taste of it). The whole nofap (i.e., reboot) thing is just like all other empirically unsupported trends in health – it’ll eventually disappear. Having said that, there’s probably no harm in doing the nofap thing other than some crankiness relating to lack of sexual outlet, and the negative thoughts and feelings that go along with beating yourself up if you fail (which is silly, in my opinion). So if you want to do the nofap challenge, knock yourselves out.
And yes, internet pornography use can be problematic for some people. When it is, it’s almost always a sign of some other underlying problem (shame, anxiety, fear of rejection, relationship problems, boredom, low self-esteem, lack of good sex education, etc.). Addressing those underlying problems should be people’s focus, not abstaining from masturbation and sex.
I’ll end with an analogy:
Internet porn is like fast food. It’s full of fatty, salty, artificial deliciousness, but it has no nutritional value whatsoever. Having a real sex partner(s), and assuming you’re doing sex right, is like eating a well-balanced diet. This might mean a little fast food now and again, especially if your fridge is empty. But if you eat nothing but fast food, you’re going to be unhealthy.
intressant att läsa om fast det verkar flummigt, "reguljär orgasm" haha
Texten jag kopierade var skriven: 2012-02-08.
Efter det så har R&W hänvisat till 3 källor som de menar är peer-review.
thl*kt N.:
intressant att läsa om fast det verkar flummigt, "reguljär orgasm" haha
Ja, de pratar om andra typer av orgasmer. Exempelvis "full body orgasm" m.fl.
thl*kt N.:
http://thenewtantra.com/about-tntvad bra
Vad är bra?
